tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post2487016740422806244..comments2022-04-04T14:10:07.089-04:00Comments on Commentary on Generation Kill: Comments on Generation KillMichael Shouphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13878454091318956873noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post-84865583674140772472022-04-04T14:10:07.089-04:002022-04-04T14:10:07.089-04:00Hello sir, I enjoyed your discussion with the auth...Hello sir, I enjoyed your discussion with the author. I was surprised to see you created this blog a month before the show aired and not after some of the episodes, which is what I've thought for years. I check this from time to time and read the comments. I expect you have read Fick's account as well. I actually just finished it. -CunninghamCunninghamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post-18944120317084866852017-04-16T19:26:23.774-04:002017-04-16T19:26:23.774-04:00I lost a lot of faith in Evan Wright when I read h...I lost a lot of faith in Evan Wright when I read his factually inaccurate characterization of maneuver warfare from his original reporting. Any student of military history knows that the doctrine adhered to by General Mattis during the invasion (as it indeed was doctrine) was pioneered some six to seven decades earlier by German generals with famous names like Rommel and Guderian. The same strategy: deep penetration by armor and mechanized infantry, followed up by slower, heavier forces to fully root out the opposition; this is how the Germans took France, Poland, and western Russia. Furthermore the entire notion of strongpoint tactics is an ancient concept. Hannibal Barca famously pinned the larger Roman army at Cannae with his heavy infantry, using light infantry in his center to draw the legionaries deeper into the melee before enveloping the entire enemy force with his heavy cavalry. <br /><br />Although I am not familiar with the particulars of our invasion of Iraq, the parallels between strongpointing occupied towns to leapfrog past them in order to achieve deep penetration of the enemy's defense in depth along corridors of weakness (after all they needed roads too, and so could not make them unusable for our forces) before later completely enveloping those pockets of resistance, and the well-documented successes of many leaders who came before are quite evident. The riskiest and most experimental part of Mattis's strategy was to use Marine Reconnaissance in a role that could be described as closer to that of a Light Armored Reconnaissance Battalion. Rapid reconnaissance in force, but not direct engagement being their primary duty. What is clear is that 1st Recon was used in a much more traditional mechanized infantry role, but relied upon for their elite status as, is aptly stated (though I forget right now by whom) America's shock troops. <br /><br />A strong theme then in Generation Kill is that, while the men of Bravo Company repeat the mantra that "Marines make do," they spend their time bitching and moaning about being tasked so outside their designated role, rather than making do and adapting to this irregular task. When it comes down to it, 1st Recon are made to look like either selfish (the notion that Ferrando was "trying to get his full bird on [their] backs" is clearly endorsed,) incompetent (almost every company grade officer but Patterson and Fick are shown as inept,) unprofessional (from the theme that Mattis was using this battalion like a science experiement to the simple endorsement of Marines bitching - literally everybody in any hierarchical work will bitch about superiors, retail to Recon,) or some combination of the three (Captain McGraw in particular is shown as unable to effectively lead, openly malcontent about strategy, and implied to have been so focused on his own notion of leadership that he did not recognize the former two qualities in himself until confronted by Kocher.)<br /><br />Altogether, it's fairly clear from the many extant accounts that Wright achieved a solid communication of the perspectives with which he was most familiar, but failed dearly to familiarize himself with both other perspectives and, in some cases, facts. All perspectives are worth understanding, so I'm not trying to say "don't read the book or watch the series" by any means. <br /><br />I mostly wanted to add to what I view as increasingly important criticism of Wright's ignorance of military history and theory, given that Mattis is now Secretary of Defense with two of his then-subordinates in similarly crucial roles; Secretary of Homeland Security Kelly having served as his assistant division commander, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Dunford having led RCT-5 parallel to the events related in Generation Kill. These men were daring, but hardly reckless with lives, as is implied. If anything the bold strategy in which the First Reconnaissance Battalion was utilized should only serve to elevate the names of Mattis and Ferrando with those of Guderian or Von Luck.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post-20791595645325990072017-03-11T22:58:38.082-05:002017-03-11T22:58:38.082-05:00Hi and thanks for a really balanced response to Ev...Hi and thanks for a really balanced response to Evans book which I must admit I haven't read but just watched all episodes of the series Generation Kill. From your comments and the amazing series I must take my hat off to you for risking your life for your country. It seems that the real issue in Iraq was the lack of planning by the US Government for what to do after the war was over. I hope that in future the US government thinks more deeply about how to solve a oil fueled international humanitarian crisis with violence.bjbassmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10380445792306291600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post-46114698292489567562012-08-15T18:43:53.099-04:002012-08-15T18:43:53.099-04:00TEUFELSHUNDE,
SEMPER FIDELISTEUFELSHUNDE, <br /> SEMPER FIDELISAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post-59951088598805751782012-07-13T23:20:18.644-04:002012-07-13T23:20:18.644-04:00I was a Cpl in the Marines and part of the invasio...I was a Cpl in the Marines and part of the invasion in 2003. Although I was not with this unit or even an infantry unit. I related with the book and thought it seems very accurate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post-13604299492803586562011-08-18T12:31:43.393-04:002011-08-18T12:31:43.393-04:00This has to be one of the most remarkable and insi...This has to be one of the most remarkable and insightful blog posts I've read; especially to include counter-point from the author in question.<br /><br />I spent 7 years in Psychological Operations, including two combat tours. The job is a duality of ambiguity and precision; directly stating and implying.<br />It takes a special kind of understanding of intention and perception, of perspective, and motivation.<br /><br />The first universal truth of PSYOP is that perception is reality. Our job is to control and structure that perception. This inevitably provides an understanding in good PSYOPers that if someone is acting on their perceptions, they are in the right, as that is the truth as they saw it.<br />It also becomes obvious that people do in fact see the world in distinctly different ways, and communicating something to them, an intention if you will, becomes that much more difficult as the size of your target audience grows.<br /><br />I would have to say Mr. Shoup may have some bias as to the commentary concerning officers. It is very difficult not to view criticism negatively, or defend the actions of your peers.<br /><br />Either way, I feel both parties have done a wonderful job at attempting objectivity with their criticism, and defending their views of the situation.<br /><br />Sometimes you just have to admit that your perspective is not UNIVERSALLY true, as true as it may be to you!<br /><br />The terrible thing is that universal truth is often simply whichever view is shared by the majority, which tends to be whichever view is most well-recieved by the majority (that is to say which one most aligns with their values), or whichever view is backed by the most violence.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post-11598972611682093892011-07-24T19:28:28.228-04:002011-07-24T19:28:28.228-04:00Thanks for your insight into the reality of Genera...Thanks for your insight into the reality of Generation Kill vs. the sensational. to put it mildly as a former Army officer, I found it hard to believe Marines were so unprofessional. I found it offensive to think most Marine officers were incompetent basket cases while all enlisted personal were God-hating hippy geniuses. Your comments settled me down and provided a context sorely missed in Generation Kill. Thanks.Bigun72noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post-67000135977025578022010-12-06T22:12:57.527-05:002010-12-06T22:12:57.527-05:00Having been shot at I always lament the lack of dr...Having been shot at I always lament the lack of dread portrayed in these overly glib presentations of warfare. I recall no such glibness; mostly somber silence as each person is left alone with their own anxieties. Wright's book panders to childish imagery. As he himself was quoted as having said a reporters job is to "Charm and betray". He did both. <br />John Lapham - Boarding Party Machine Gunner USN 1959-1964john103141https://www.blogger.com/profile/11161418069913486058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post-22177539196265836922010-04-09T09:13:36.500-04:002010-04-09T09:13:36.500-04:00I too wondered about Captain America. One possible...I too wondered about Captain America. One possible answer is the fact aberrant behavior by leaders is rarely witnessed by their superiors, only by their subordinates.Plt Sgtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post-5290477758431499432010-03-21T13:18:21.556-04:002010-03-21T13:18:21.556-04:00I come late to this debate, having only just seen ...I come late to this debate, having only just seen the entire HBO series and read the original RS stories. As a (European) ex-war correspondent and amateur historian, I was very interested to read your response, Colonel, and found that it did indeed at the very least modify my perspective on a number of the incidents described or portrayed.<br /><br />However, what it did not touch upon was what I found most extraordinary in Evan's story, namely the behaviour of the officer called by him "Captain America". Now, either this portrayal was grossly libelous and entirely fictitious, or else the officer in question displayed a level of dangerous incompetence far beyond anything that his superiors should have tolerated; indeed, I was astonished that he could have reached such a rank in the Marine Corps at all.<br /><br />Can you provide any illumination on this subject? Thank you in advance.JCSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post-39154384464779320672010-01-14T01:38:02.966-05:002010-01-14T01:38:02.966-05:00I think this blog and the commentary that follows ...I think this blog and the commentary that follows it are prof that war is confusing and two people standing side by side can have extremely different views of the same event.<br /><br />I know this from experience. When I was wounded the my unit did an investigation into what happened. During the XO's interview with me he was called away and I was able to read other soldiers view points on what happened to me. I would say that though each one was drastically different that all in all it was exactly what happened just from different points of view.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post-13824127300760911112010-01-08T12:16:44.379-05:002010-01-08T12:16:44.379-05:00I am just watching Generation Kill - I have not re...I am just watching Generation Kill - I have not read the book nor have I read Lt. Fick's. I find the discussion here to be an invaluable addition to the series. I wish all the men portrayed in the series would add their comments to the discussion in the same way that Major Shoup has.<br /><br />Thanks to all those who served.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post-11848298018168590912009-07-06T08:36:57.250-04:002009-07-06T08:36:57.250-04:00Brilliant discussion. Read both Fick and Wright an...Brilliant discussion. Read both Fick and Wright and will do so again. As a woman, I seized on both accounts quoting an observation that went something like this: "If we'd had to fight the women here, we wouldn't have stood a chance". <br />Recommend also Andrew Exum, Craig Mullaney, Paul Reichoff and Colby Buzzell and Sassaman.. (apologies for spellings).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post-2782102394551196052009-06-17T01:11:07.663-04:002009-06-17T01:11:07.663-04:00The thing to remember here is that everyone sees t...The thing to remember here is that everyone sees things differently and definitly while under the stress of combat, so it doesnt matter if its your memory or the memories of the troops on the ground and the notes of Evan, because no matter how hard you try it will never be 100% bang on. It is easy for anyone to remember or note something different then someone else, i just find it strange that you are so eager to bash evan when your own memory can be critized in the exact same by another marine in your platoon or companyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post-88937417212825460032009-06-12T14:55:49.516-04:002009-06-12T14:55:49.516-04:00Hi there. Just a few words.
First time I saw GNRT...Hi there. Just a few words.<br /><br />First time I saw GNRTNKLL was last summer.<br />Last days I was looking for slang words and special jargon when I came across this blog.<br /><br />Nice. I have read you from the scratch to the end.<br />And I subscribe to the most opinions about.<br />Especially what it said about the respect showed by Mr. Right and Col. Shoup on their answers.<br /><br />The more you learn the less you know, it is said.<br />And the more experience you got, wider your sight is. I believe.<br />Both good guys, good stuff, as well as bad and clumsy ones. <br /><br />Sincerely, I still remember those movies about WWII I saw in my youth.<br />Rock Hudson wearing a flashy pilot shirt and watching japs moving closer as a sitting ducks.<br />John Wayne with a chinese girl on his arms at the end of the movie (supposedly on Vietnam),<br />behold a sunset on the China Sea (no comment ...)<br />Not to mention, Wertmacht's soldiers shown on movies as dumb retarded clumsy guys,<br />even on real and historic battles as Ardennes.<br />Where defeated players seem to say: it happened because there were too many indians...<br />Despite to seem pedantic, is the same story since Alexander The Great:<br />winners always write down the history.<br /><br />But recent years and after for instance "The Iron Cross" movie as it were. <br />We have been staring a change. Different points of view.<br />Maybe little closer to the raw truth as well.<br /><br />At least and as somebody wrote down above:<br />thanks to writers as Mr. Wright -with his goals and mistakes-,<br />as well as, de facto, the tops who let him to do that<br />and people as Col. Shoup, Sgt. Kocher, etc who helped them.<br />Don't forget it.<br /><br />Thanks to books and movies as GNRTKLL I say again,<br />we are better known and better undestood for people out of armed forces.<br /><br />Someone said this is a way of life.<br />I believe that is true. Either plumbers nor lawyers, nor nine to five job.<br />Even us when we exchange a walk on part in the war,<br />with the cold water up to your neck as your guys on a beach in a dark night,<br />for a lead role in the cage of an H&S Co. ...<br />I do not know if I have been enough explicit.<br /><br />Finally, let me say that in spite I have enjoyed myself long ago.<br />Once again, it is funny, it is really a relief to notice.<br />Even after twenty years working with the best of foreigners mates.<br />ANGLICO and US Recon Teams included.<br />All of us have the same good and bad ... retards.<br />Despite we were the first one Marine Corp: Since 1537.<br />But also, as Ssgt. Colbert said: we still have to "make do" as well.<br /><br />Thanks a lot again Mr. Wright, Col. Shoup.<br /><br />Yours<br /><br />GySgt SP Marine Corps.Maxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17406930655924472158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post-32662703471601344452009-05-22T12:35:39.258-04:002009-05-22T12:35:39.258-04:00WOW, this is an exceptional blog. As numerous peop...WOW, this is an exceptional blog. As numerous people above have noted, both LtCol Shoup's and Mr. Wright's civilized contributions are very refreshing in an era of hopelessly wasted bandwidth. Please keep the commentary going to help people like myself gain a better understanding of the war, war, the military, and the people involved...<br /><br />again,<br /><br />appreciativeBryannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post-70449916814349838702009-04-05T04:09:00.000-04:002009-04-05T04:09:00.000-04:00I'm an old guy. I echo my colleague to my 12s comm...I'm an old guy. I echo my colleague to my 12s comments that this book showed the very best in us. Sure some of the guys had some problems and mistakes. But, overall, I'd say these men are the best of the best and Wright showed that very clearly and fairly.<BR/><BR/>Anyone with any sense understands the need for the heat of the 'grooming standard' how that diversion serves the men and moves them forward. <BR/><BR/>The minutiae is just that. No one remembers exactly what happens when the battle is on and the perceptions become the reality. <BR/><BR/>I don't know much about the current generation, I know we never had baby wipes (but I wish we had) but I do know I would have been proud to serve with these men. <BR/><BR/>One last little thing. If wars were reported from the perspective of the non pogs... we'd all be better off. <BR/><BR/>You did a good thing Mr. Wright... our men deserve to have their story told in a way the affixes the adequate amount of verisimilitude.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post-84019585941524445822009-01-14T04:50:00.000-05:002009-01-14T04:50:00.000-05:00I think the success of Wright's book and subsequen...I think the success of Wright's book and subsequent mini-series does not necessarily rest on the authenticity of his accounts or the quotes contained within. Of course these are important and if less care had been taken on this issue that would certainly have detracted - not only from the relevance but also the impact of the work.<BR/><BR/>I think, however, the biggest reason it has such an impact on even a casual observer is Wright manages to portray how "ordinary" the people in this battalion are. They are the people you went to school with. The people you might pass on the street without giving them a second glance. If they had in fact been presented as unusually "heroic" or even ridiculously stupid, it would be much easier to dismiss them as too fictionalised, or at the very least exaggerated for dramatic effect.<BR/><BR/>But you don't get that here.<BR/><BR/>Instead you get an insight into ordinary men placed in extraordinary situations and how they ultimately deal with what nobody ever wants or expects to have to deal with in their lifetime.<BR/><BR/>Without these sorts of insights it is easy for people to lose perspective on this war and the soldiers who fought in it. They can be dehumanised - even demonised - and then just as quickly dismissed. Here we are given an opportunity to get to know, to admire, laugh with (or at!), sympathise with and ultimately respect them.<BR/><BR/>Every story is a perspective and we each of us have a story to tell. I can only hope when mine is told that it will be as interesting and as moving as this one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post-49187846842922373682008-11-15T05:04:00.000-05:002008-11-15T05:04:00.000-05:00Well, I'm an old Marine. Some are good. Some are b...Well, <BR/>I'm an old Marine. Some are good. Some are bad...but not many. The rest of us just did our best to stand bye our brothers. Having seen Generation Kill, short of one or two examples, I was extremely proud of our corps, and the story that was told. The many good and GREAT Marines, ALWAYS outweigh the few bad.<BR/>I had no impression that the writer, Evan Wright, was out to get us, nor that he was looking to make up a story. Most of us have served with officers, a few, that were incompetent. That's a fact, whether senior officers would like to believe that or not. However, we are, BY FAR the most fortunate enlistmen, on this planet. By and large they are the very best of the best. They are very much like us, in their dedication and commitment to excellence.<BR/>You don't join the Corps for an education. You join the Corps to EARN the right to wear the Eagle, Globe and Anchor. I had the opportunity to do either. I've served with the best and the worst.<BR/>It's unfortunate that fictitious names weren't used, to protect individuals who may well end up being strong and quality Marines. However, there is also good in pointing out those Marines who need more work and professional introspection. <BR/>A hallmark of ALL Marines is too look inside, not in a sense of denial, but in a sense of honor, upon which we improve, adapt and overcome our deficiencies. This is why we NEVER lose the ultimate fight. We don't ever quit.<BR/><BR/>The very best aspects of Marines were shown in Generation Kill...warts and all.<BR/>As was said, in the conclusion. "if I acted upon every complaint, voiced against my officers, how could my battalion function?"<BR/>As a young LCpl, I wouldn't have understood that. As a 40 year old retired Marine, that thought process is as clear as day.<BR/>I neither doubt Evan Wright's telling, nor do I doubt the rebutall, by an officer, who I think? comes from about 100 years of Marine family history. Somewhere, in the fog is the truth. If you haven't been forced to lead, that fog is far harder to penetrate.<BR/>My salute to 1st Recon!<BR/>You did a job completely beyond your S.O.P., and did it better than ANY unit could have possibly done it. History will be very kind to you, and too our Corps. <BR/>Thank you, Evan Wright, for doing your best, and thank you MORE, to my fellow Marines, for writing another honored chapter in the History of the United Sates Marine Corps!<BR/>Semper Fi!<BR/>OORAH!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post-61718682940554269292008-10-30T02:55:00.000-04:002008-10-30T02:55:00.000-04:00Anyone who has voluntarily put themselves in the p...Anyone who has voluntarily put themselves in the position to defend this country and my freedom will always deserve my utmost respect. Those of us banging away at our keyboards have no right to question the decisions or actions of another serviceman while acting in our best interests. Please put this argument to rest and truly appreciate the sacrifices that have been made on our behalf.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post-16721320697048178492008-09-16T18:51:00.000-04:002008-09-16T18:51:00.000-04:00Wonderful and respectful discussion. I've been col...Wonderful and respectful discussion. I've been collecting 'disagreements' over Generation Kill after reading the newest edition. <BR/>With no military background, but long time law enforcement, I see one common thread. We used to say, "There are three sides to a story. Yours, mine... and the truth." <BR/>Hard to come by if at all possible even with the best of intentions.<BR/><BR/>The one absolute truth is that "courage is not lacking, honor and bravery are always present, and sacrifice is only a moment away".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post-27699359485863805762008-09-09T17:29:00.000-04:002008-09-09T17:29:00.000-04:00I echo those thanks. The point/counterpoint above...I echo those thanks. The point/counterpoint above is interesting, especially having read both Evan and Captain Fick's respective books, as well as watching the series. Facts are important, and any journalist (as Evan's very thorough response demonstrates) tries hard to respect them. Can a story be factual and still unfair or biased? Yes, it happens all the time. Can a story have some or many facts incorrect, and still be relevant? Yep, ditto to that. I work in the field.<BR/><BR/>None of that should take away from Evan's book, which represents a clear attempt to tell a story accurately and fairly, despite its flaws. Imagine if someone asked you to write a story of the 'truth' about your school, office or family. Do you really think there'd be no dissenting views or incorrect facts (however small)?<BR/><BR/>The most important truth that I found in Evan's book is the double standard that is generally held about war. Civilian journalists pretend (despite all evidence to the contrary) that wars can be waged and won when one side is held to a higher standard. Is it possible or feasible to protect civilians from harm when enemy combatants are happy to hide and attack from among them? Can we really "win" wars when deployment (in scope of both time and force size) are politically limited by the attention span (and erstwhile support) of an apathetic public? Is anyone out there ready to say that they did their jobs for a day, or a week, or a month without making a SINGLE mistake or error in judgment, even knowing that our professional mistakes don't cost anyone a life or limb?<BR/><BR/>War is different. The men and women we train and send to fight them are human. Many are patriotic, and mean the very best. Some are 'psychos' who want to shoot guns and kill poeple. Some suffer great consequences, some cause them. The bottom line is that trying to judge warriors by civilian standards just doesn't work. I for one wish we were better at giving them the attention, support and thanks that they deserve... even the most incompetent, cowardly and misguided among them did something most of us didn't (and aren't willing to) do. They showed up and risked their lives. <BR/><BR/>So whether 3,000 or 'nearly 10,000 lbs of ordinance was dropped on a phantom convoy, I think I'll focus on the fact that brave, flawed men acted on the best knowledge and training that they had, and -- yes -- likely made a mistake. Then another man tried his best to tell their story.<BR/><BR/>To quote (I think?) Captain Patterson's line: "I guess we can put that in the win column?". :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post-29598926927274795832008-09-09T17:16:00.000-04:002008-09-09T17:16:00.000-04:00It's refreshing to find a blog where people of goo...It's refreshing to find a blog where people of goodwill can have a civil discussion on such controversial topics without degenerating into name-calling and vitriol. Thanks to both LtCol Shoup and Mr. Wright for devoting so much care and time to their posts.<BR/><BR/>Some readers might be interested in the first segment of last week's NPR program "This American Life."<BR/><BR/>As the program summary describes it, "Sam Slaven is an Iraq War [Army] veteran who came home from the War plagued by feelings of hate and anger toward Muslims. TAL producer Lisa Pollak tells the story of the unusual action Sam took to change himself, and the Muslim students who helped him do it. (34 minutes)" His account of the stress he felt when he first attended a meeting of the Muslim student organization at his college is very compelling. <BR/><BR/>http://www.thislife.org/?gclid=CIzrnpeOzZUCFQO2FQodWwd-jA<BR/><BR/>("The Devil in Me" is the title of the whole hour-long program; in case you have to search for it, the broadcast date was September 7. The vet's story is the first one in the program -- "Act One. And So We Meet Again." Some readers may be interested in the other 2 segments, but others won't be.)<BR/><BR/>J.M. KeynesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post-79512819623531875892008-09-05T17:28:00.000-04:002008-09-05T17:28:00.000-04:00Col. Shoup and Evan Wright,Thank both of you for a...Col. Shoup and Evan Wright,<BR/><BR/>Thank both of you for an excellent dialog regarding some of the material in "Generation Kill." I found it very helpful.<BR/><BR/>I do not have a "side" in this matter because I believe both of you make important, and informative comments.<BR/><BR/>As a former Plt Sgt in a a USMC rifle company, I understand the way memories of events can differ by parties that observe them in times of stress and confusion. It has always been this way. Rashomon illustrates the universality of this reality.<BR/>When Churchill said the first causality of war is truth, he was correct.<BR/><BR/>I must admit, I am comforted by the possible alternate view of what I regarded as the cold blooded murder of the man wearing the hat. I found that passage in the book especially troubling.<BR/><BR/>The truth is Marines, officers and enlisted, are human. They exist in a culture that gives them guidance and structure in a more extreme way than civilians, but their humanity still can inform their actions. While some of the characterizations in the book troubled me. both officer and enlisted, I recognized the same kind of people that I served with. Incompetence and careerism do exist in the Marine Corps, though perhaps not to the same extent that they do in the civilian world.<BR/><BR/>Evan characterizations of the junior enlisted appeared to be spot on. They do seem better educated them the men I served with in the 60's, with the same clever, laser focused humor is still being used.<BR/><BR/>A final point. Decision making in war is not done the same way breaks are decided at the health food store.<BR/><BR/>Lt. Col. Ferrando by all accounts, accomplished all his assigned tasks, in a VERY challenging environment, with no fatalities, and relatively few wounded. Friction in war creates a tendency toward inertia, which strong leadership needs to over-come. However, in modern war, that leadership needs to tempered, with perception, judgement, and wisdom. <BR/><BR/>Col Shoup, thank you for your service, and Evan, that you for a wonderful view inside a small Marine unit.Plt Sgt.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03427205767018579500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5203670785925908974.post-35984616431016502542008-09-01T09:06:00.000-04:002008-09-01T09:06:00.000-04:00Evan, Thank-you for adding to the discussion. Pe...Evan,<BR/> Thank-you for adding to the discussion. People can read all we have to say and perhaps understand the nature of combat a little better through our agreements, disagreements, and perspectives.Michael Shouphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13878454091318956873noreply@blogger.com